Dave McChesney ([info]vespican) wrote,
@ 2009-04-11 08:56:00
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Current location:Here, not there
Current mood: contemplative
Current music:Dang Me! Roger Miller

Formula Writing?

No, I'm not talking mathematics here.  I'm speaking of the notion that all stories, especially those of certain genres all follow a formula or pattern.  My somewhat rhetorical question is whether or not all stories have to contain specific elements or contain those elements in specific places within the book?

Why do I ask?

A couple of months ago I entered my first book in a literary contest.  (The entry consisted of the first chapter, a portion of the second, and a two page synopsis.)  Recently I received the judges' scoring sheets from the preliminary judging.  And yes, one judge in particular "tore" it up rather well.  Naturally I was quite dismayed at his/her reaction, but I also wonder if it might be indicative of things I need to look at and possibly correct.

Without going into detail, it was suggested that my opening chapter(s) were more of a prologue to the actual story.  Secondly, the one judge noted that my protagonist didn't have any defined long range goal.  And because I had entered it in the Mainstream category, and because the story migrates to a more fantasy oriented setting, one remarked that such a change could be troubling to a reader who had obtained it to simply read Naval Adventure.

At this point I want to assure everyone that despite the somewhat harsh criticism levelled at my work, I am not devastated or angry.  I am a little disappointed, but I do see a certain level of validity in the judges comments.  At the same time, I've received critiques and comments from judges in other contests, as well as agents and other impartial and professional readers who have responded much more favorably.  That tends to make me think that it is more a matter of opinion rather than there being anything essentially flawed in my writing.

Now back to my original question.  It seems that many of the "how-to" books and classes on writing set everything up by a formula.  It's almost as if all the writer has to do is plug his own characters, setting, and story line into a pre-existing layout.  Does a book have to follow that layout to be good?  Does a protagonist have to have an over riding goal at the very start of the story?  Is there room at the beginning for the reader to simply get to know, understand, and hopefully like (or sympathize with) the protagonist?  Does a writer have to jump write right into the primary story, or is he allowed to develop the "why" and "how" of "why" and "how" the central character becomes involved in the primary story?

I suppose I'm asking or wondering about this, because I do see a validity to the recent comments and criticisms I've received.  If I eventually determine that it is a big enough deal, I'll have to do some restructuring of the book.  Perhaps it needs to start at a later point and have the portions leading up to that point interleaved into the plot as back story.  That way, I believe the primary goal could be made clearer, earlier in the book.  However I personally do not like to use a lot of flashback sequences, and in revising the story earlier even eliminated many that I did have.  (A couple of my very early first readers found them to be a little confusing.)  Quite honestly, I would prefer to not make any big sweeping changes to the story.  It's basically told in a straight forward chronological order, and I'd like to keep it that way.  I'd rather not jump into the middle of it and then move forward and bounce back to ensure that all essential elements are included.

That's probably it for today.  Maybe some tomorrow, but don't count on it.  Time now to go to a meeting of the little writer's group I belong to here in Spokane.  Coincidentally we will be discussing chapter 9 of BEYOND THE OCEAN'S EDGE.  ( A last minute thought!  If anyone would like to read and evaluate the story, e-mail me at  daveeva@comcast.net  Then we can make arrangements to send the story to you for evaluation.  I might also be convinced to read and evaluate something of yours as well.)

Dave

 




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[info]sageofthpalouse
2009-04-12 03:01 am UTC (link)
I’m not a writer, so I post this with respect and trepidation, as a reader. Maybe this can speak indirectly to your concrete technical questions. I also apologize for the length. It's a hard question to answer briefly.

A case could be made that one important uber formula is along the lines of Campbell’s hero quest.

IT is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.

There’s the quest, in the first two dozen words, but displaced from myth and in nuanced, ironic form (it is not a truth, though it may be “universally acknowledged” in somebody’s tiny little world, and just who, praytell, is the hero?). I might use examples like this to try to make my case that the formula is important and universally acknowledged whatever its role: to be stood on its head, parodied, or followed recognizably as in a straightahead quest story.

HAPPY for all her maternal feelings was the day on which Mrs. Bennet got rid of her two most deserving daughters. With what delighted pride she afterwards visited Mrs. Bingley and talked of Mrs. Darcy may be guessed. I wish I could say, for the sake of her family, that the accomplishment of her earnest desire in the establishment of so many of her children, produced so happy an effect as to make her a sensible, amiable, well-informed woman for the rest of her life; though perhaps it was lucky for her husband, who might not have relished domestic felicity in so unusual a form, that she still was occasionally nervous and invariably silly.

The quest formula’s goal is recognition (catharsis). The story through its ups downs resistances and reversals needs to lead to an insight through truthtelling, or it risks wasting this lazy reader’s time.

As I understand it anyway that is the bare bones of many stories. Where the writing is going ... well, it’s the essential problem I think. That, and your readers’ attention span. Composer Phillip Glass was on PBS recently and he commented in an offhand way how scary that feeling of creative drift is and how with age he only has confidence that the "oh, that's where its going" insight will arrive eventually. Note: not confidence that he has the insight ready to show, like a card up his sleeve.

As a listener or reader I can share that anxiety! I want that insight to arrive too, and I dont waste too much time if I think it wont arrive – perhaps the author is unaware of the formula or abuses it recklessly and for no apparent reason. Or if the author works me too hard with flashbacks or leaving too much out (I’m lazy) and isnt famous enough to brag about reading. Also if the formula is too obvious or if the author follows it too mindlessly, I'll probably give up because I feel that kind of storytelling disrespects stories.

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[info]vespican
2009-04-12 04:56 pm UTC (link)
I thank you for your insight. Truth is, it would be a lot easier to decide that the book needs work in these areas if nearly all the readers suggested it. If everyone says, "whoa, you've got a problem with this," then I'd know I really have a problem. While said difficulty might not be easily fixed, knowing that it existed would prompt a start at correcting it. As it is now, I can see that there might be a problem, but in attempting to repair it, I'm afraid I might lose some or all of what I had tried to establish with the initial part of the story.

On the other hand, one of the nice things about writing on a computer is that I can set the current version aside, start a new version and manipulate selected passages and new material in order to create an alternate version that just might solve or lessen some of the perceived problems.
Dave

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[info]sageofthpalouse
2009-04-12 07:50 pm UTC (link)
It's quite fascinating and a privilege to know something of these struggles ... it is a sign that the material has life and force, if it is resisting, so I hope you can persevere!

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[info]vespican
2009-04-13 10:32 pm UTC (link)
Saturday morning I asked the others in the writing group if they thought the story was taking too long to develop, or to get to the "meat" of it. They did agree that it was on a slow climb to where things start happening. I guess you could compare it to a heavily laden bomber (B-17 or B-24) climbing to altitude. As a writer, I suppose I want it to be a fighter that claws its way into the sky with a much higher rate of climb. (Maybe one of those old Grumman F3F biplanes or an F8F Bearcat, which could out climb nearly everything, including many of the first and second generation jet fighters!)
Right now I'm toying with the idea of revising the running order of a few of the chapters and naturally adding or subtracting material to make the transitions make sense. I'll keep the current version intact, however, because even with it's possible problems, it really is the story told in the way I want to tell it.
To sort of answer the basic question I posted in the beginning, I think all the elements that formula writing requires are there. It just might be that they are not as evident as some professional readers would want. It also might be that they don't occur at the point in the story that they would normally expect them to occur.
Dave

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[info]newguydave
2009-04-13 09:02 pm UTC (link)
Dave,
If your story has elements of fantasy, sci-fi, or horror try posting chapters for critique over at OWW

http://sff.onlinewritingworkshop.com/

If not, you might have luck with searching for another critiquing group.

Joshua offered me some good advice at Boskone. He told me if I'm still looking for an agent/publisher for my first book, avoid writing a sequel. Nobody's going to want to buy a sequel to a book that doesn't sell. My next project is going to be different characters and setting as my first novel, so I can sell it even if the first book doesn't sell.

Perhaps you can write a different kind of nautical adventure with different characters. Either way, good luck.

Cheers,
Dave

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[info]vespican
2009-04-13 10:44 pm UTC (link)
I just might check out OWW. The story does have a fantasy/science fiction element, but it is not really evident until a third or even a half way into the story. That's one thing that I'd like to move a little closer to the beginning.

For a while I was pitching/querying the work as "fantasy cleverly disguised as Naval Adventure." It garnered a lot of interest, but when agents and editors would read the first fifty pages and not have fantasy/science fiction staring them in the face, it tended to turn them off. "Where's the fantasy?" they'd ask. Now I query and pitch it as Naval Adventure with an element of Fantasy. As I search for agents I do try to find those that list Action/Adventure and Fantasy in those genres they are looking for. Again, if the fantasy element makes itself known a little sooner, it might be beneficial.

I remember hearing Joshua's advice before, and I think it makes sense. Yet if that first story is picked up, it sure would be nice to have the second and possibly third story ready to go.
Dave
PS As we are all Daves that have posted or commented on this particular subject, no one can say, "Dave's not here!"

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